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Author Topic: Warmage's Edge and multi-hit spells  (Read 9629 times)

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October 31, 2015, 12:56:35 AM
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I've got a quick question on Warmage's Edge. I think in PnP it works so you add the damager per cast, but I'm curious how it works in prc.

For example, would a Issac's Greater Missile Storm have Warmage's edge apply once to the whole thing or apply to each missile? Obviously a huge difference in damage!


October 31, 2015, 09:40:17 PM
Reply #1

Pretty sure it can only be added once after the whole thing, if for no other reason than balance.

Consider an L40 caster w/ +15 Int bonus.

IGMS dam = 20 * (2d6) + 20*15. Avg damage = 140 + 300 WM Edge. WM bonus damage ~ 2X Avg Base. Max IGMS 240 + 300. Again WM Edge bonus damage > a max L6 spell = L9 spell.

Burning Bolt becomes a discount IGMS (albeit with touch attack needed). Dam = 19 * (d4+1) + 19*15. Avg bolt damage = 66.5 + 285 = ~352 from a base L1 spell. Means WM Edge damage ~ 4X base dam. Max spell damage = 399  (114 + 285) base. WM Edge dam > 2.5X base damage. Not bad for ~ L4 spell.

WM Edge dam applied per "hit" could otherwise be the most unbalancing L1 freebie feat ever.
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March 06, 2017, 08:07:55 AM
Reply #2
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I turns out it works exactly like that, so not as it should according to pnp (a friend of mine rolled a warmage on a server recently).
So a level 40 warmage, who achieves 50 int (quite extreme, hard to do that if we assume we are a normal race, not some uber bullshit xD), we get 15 bonus from edge. Then you pick extra edge, which gives +1 damage to edge and an additional +1 for each 4 warmage levels. Which is another 11 damage.

So IGMS gets 20d6+20*26 damage. Quite insane. It's also pretty good with rainbow blast, which is normally a shitty spell dealing max 5d12, 1d12 of each element. Warmage edge makes it an actually good spell, applying the bonus to each element, so it becomes 5d12+130 (3rd level spell) aoe damage. But if you consider how shitty warmage's spell list is... I think it's not that bad. Mages catch those spells in their spell mantles and can drop a warmage with ease, especially a pure one.

Another thing which would need testing is an archmage - does the warmage edge apply to the spell-like ability version of spells that an archmage can provide.
Ideas are bulletproof.


March 08, 2017, 02:43:32 AM
Reply #3

Found something way worse than uber-races & demi-liches.

(d4/6/8/10/12 +Int mod)*dice? d4 avg is 2.5, d6 is 3.5, d8 is 4.5, d10 is 5.5, d12 is 6.5. Item mod alone is +6, so that at least doubles damage on d10 & under for a 1 level dip. Warmage indeed.

Speaking of doubling, why not go WM20 / Wiz 20 and double the number of spells that get the WM game-breaking bonus (albeit with half Extra Edge bonus)? Anyone play tested if WM Edge / Extra Edge works on all or just WM list? Interesting that Extra Edge doesn't show on the WM page, but shows up in the feats list. With a max level bonus of +10, that more than doubles the item damage, so the total ~ 3X damage over any base caster.

All WM needs is max Imp Initiative and Superior Init (+8 ) to cast before anyone mantles up. Even WM Epic Casters can access Gr T-Stop, Superb Dispelling [Mord's D.], Epic Spell Reflection, Epic Warding, Epic Mage Armor, etc. Leverage Epic spells and feats wisely & it's game-breaking.

Two Max Sonic Orbs would waste a Lich10 build. 15*(6 +26) = 15 * 32 ~ 480. Two shots and done.

May have to give up my munchkin crown.
Fermi was a Pyrokineticist


March 08, 2017, 05:25:00 AM
Reply #4
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I assumed the 50 int after item bonuses, so your assumption about 32 bonus damage is a bit too much I think?. Besides a warmage gives up a lot of spell slots by maxing int.

Anyway, as it turns out warmage edge is an amazing ability, but also pretty much the only boon warmage has over sorc and wizard. Pre-epic he doesn't have access to any kind of decent buffs, so have to rely exclusively on epic spells for that.
As for a warmage/wizard (or warmage/archivist, just tried), warmage edge does not apply to non-warmage spells. Besides you are sacrificing 5 of your extra edge bonus then, and 16 caster levels.

Sonic orb only produces 1 projectile I believe, so damage is applied once, I don't think it gets warmage edge applied 15 times. It works with very limited amount of spells: those with multiple missiles (ball lightning, missile storms, magic missiles, burning bolts...) or those that deal damage multiple times (rainbow blast).
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March 08, 2017, 10:00:43 PM
Reply #5

WM can make a (cough) killing (cough) off of Burn Bolts & IGMS w/Base + Empower & Max meta.

Looking at feasibility of RWoT / WM combo: Conclusion: RWoT spells don't fire unless you've got Wiz class.
http://prc.athasreborn.com/index.php/topic,1549.msg6841.html

RWoT text: "While it is possible for a sorcerer or a bard to become a Red Wizard, such misfits are ridiculed in their homeland and are incredibly rare."

If you leveled WM until RWoT pre-req's met, took 1L in Wiz, then leveled in RWoT, the RWoT should choose the WM as it would have the higher caster level: "Upon gaining a level in Red Wizard of Thay, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in his highest caster class (bard, sorcerer, or wizard)" Not sure if the statement is true or the class list.

How much trouble would a WM 19 / Wiz 1 / 20 RWoT get into? Caster check = L40 (w/Prac Cast)+ 10 (RWoT) + 1 (Tat Focus Evoc) + 6 ESpellPen + 6 ESFocus Evoc = 63 ain't bad. Only L40 Mind Flayer & base Rak have a small chance to survive. Of course - the Max SR uber class is better (bc . . . well . . .WotC genius) & irreducible - (bc . . .well . . .Bozo-ware.)

At that point, just leave Cha @ 20 and dump everything into Int, as IGMS & your BB are no save & DGAF about DC. Bonus spells suffer tho.

With Superior Init, WM 19, a modest 12 Int bonus, a Max IGMS (240 + 20*(12 + 1 + 4); 240+340) and a quickened Burning Bolt (19*(3.5 + 17); 390). 580 + 390 = 970 on first round. No round 2.

Uber mode engaged.
Fermi was a Pyrokineticist


March 09, 2017, 06:34:17 AM
Reply #6
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You're right, that's quite insane. And it's insane that it took us so many years to notice that xD I guess everybody looked at warmage "Oh, spontaneous caster, oh, armor, oh knows all his spells... Ah, spell list. Ah, warmage edge applied only once and I want to boost cha anyway. Okay, pass"

So basically we discovered that a warmage is an amazing glass cannon. Now the thing is: our warmage/wizard/red wizard of thay - its silly, but a warmage would actually be stronger with the 3.5 version of red wiz - more missiles on burning bolts xD
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March 11, 2017, 05:57:24 PM
Reply #7
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I'd say that psion wins over warmage. He clicks temporal acceleration, which functions immediately, then kills the warmage in those rounds using his own arsenal of destruction
Ideas are bulletproof.


March 12, 2017, 05:16:20 PM
Reply #8

Yup. Funny that the munchkins overlooked the WM loophole.  :'(

RE: Psion v. WM. In the battle of glass cannons (pick any blaster), initiative would determine a large % of wins. High Dex & Super Init FTW. A pure psion burns down pretty quick and has no Epic spells (Contingent Resurrection). A Cerebremancer (Wilder / Psion) build would have a lot more staying power bc of Epic spells.

The psion does have a very nice advantage that their best power is L1 and can be quickened. IGMS can't be.

WM would be Max IGMS + Quickened B-Bolt v. Twin, Max, Emp Crystal + Quickened Twinned Max, Emp Crystal. I don't recall getting quickened powers to work, so I never built them.

Just looking at the exchange of howitzer blasts, I'm wondering what Epic Dodge would do. IGMS is 20 separate missiles & 19 burn bolts vs. 6 psion ([Primary max + twin max + empowered]*2 ). The maxxed crystals hit for ~ 220 hp and the empowered ~ 190, so the defender would need half to miss AND have a crap-ton of hp.

W/o the WM loophole, the arcane blaster can't match the Psion types on raw damage.

One thing that really blows about psionics is that Maximize power does not operate on the Empowered bit, so there is a lot of lost damage potential. Max not working on Emp is the same for casters, but manifesters pay (d6 / pp) to upscale damage, where casters get scaling for free (d6 / caster).
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