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Author Topic: Help improve my Bard/Assasin/Sublime Chord  (Read 2125 times)

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December 19, 2013, 05:05:50 PM
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I really like arcane trickster like builds, but usually dont really care for the inability to do any decent melee damage, sice i also really care about supreme versatility and beeing able to somewhat pick locks/disable traps without resting every few meters or stacking up on knock/find traps i decided to build around a class that has all that, plus the ability to cast arcane spells to qualify for Sublime chord.
 
The build is as follows:
Bard 5/Assasin 7/Bard 1 / Sublime Chord 10 / rest Assasin

Bard 5 to qualify for Assasin, 7 levels then to reach level 4 arcane spells, bard again to dump in saved skillpoints in lore/perform needed to qualify for Sublime Chord, Sublime Chord to 10, while putting everything in skills needed to qualify for epic spellcasting, the rest in assasin to rise both sneak attack and spellcaster levels for sublime chord, plus the superior number of skillpoints, and superior skills overall.

Unsure about feats, but "practiced spellcaster assasin" is a must, with song of arcane power you should just about get +2 (since maxed its +4 and you get -2 due to bard) on caster level. Does this work like that? Do the sublime chord levels stack with my Assasin caster level?

So the question is, any way to do this without cheesing on a OP race like nymph? With nymph you get more than enough skillpoints, AC, and have enough dex to reach Perfect two Weapon fighting, i suppose i could forgo AB and forget about dex and two weapon figting, but be overall strictly focused on spells. I suppose that there is no way to get around the 5 bard thing (to get bardic music, and get the skills needed to qualify for sublime chord) with just 3 classes.

Just how exactly do i learn epic spells? How do spell sneak attacks work? I did try Beguiler/Assasin/Arcane trickster, but the lack of attack spells makes it kinda hard to test anything out ;)

Thanks in advance.


December 20, 2013, 04:00:06 PM
Reply #1
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Having never played a character like that, I can't really offer improvements, but hopefully I can answer your other questions...

Unsure about feats, but "practiced spellcaster assasin" is a must, with song of arcane power you should just about get +2 (since maxed its +4 and you get -2 due to bard) on caster level. Does this work like that? Do the sublime chord levels stack with my Assasin caster level?

If I understood the scripts correctly, then sublime chord casting uses your primary arcane class level rather than its own. In addition, your sublime chord levels get added to your primary caster class. In other words, your sublime chord level is added to your assassin caster level, and spells you gain through the sublime chord class will also use that caster level.

I'm not sure where the -2 due to bard is coming from (though it is probably in Bioware's scripts rather than in the PRC scripts somewhere, so I can't find it). Practiced spellcaster and song of arcane power should stack with each other.

Just how exactly do i learn epic spells?

I've only done it once or twice and not for a while, but you need the "seed" books to learn the spells. You can find both the spell books and seed books in the PRC options dialogue (you should find that you have the feat for this in your class feat menu). Then all you really have to do is use the unique powers on the books to learn them, which costs xp and gold, then you can choose which spells to ready through the PRC options dialogue again.

How do spell sneak attacks work? I did try Beguiler/Assasin/Arcane trickster, but the lack of attack spells makes it kinda hard to test anything out ;)

The only class which has a spell sneak attack that affects damage to my knowledge is the Thrall of Graz'zt. The beguiler's stuff only alters your DC and chance to overcome SR. This should work when your target is denied their dex bonus to AC. That is defined if any one of the following is true:

- Creature is paralyzed
- Creature is asleep
- Creature is petrified
- Creature is "cutscene" paralyzed (it's a variant of paralysis used in some spells like otiluke's resilient sphere as it bypasses normal immunity)
- Creature is blinded
- Creature is stunned
- Creature is entangled
- Creature is frightened (the fear effect that makes you run away from everything)
- Creature is dazed
- The creature has never attempted an attack or a targeted spell in the last combat session
- The creature is not considered to be in combat (the resting icon lights up orange when you can't rest due to being in combat)
- Knocked down through use of the Knockdown or Improved Knockdown feats (whether other effects cause them to be flatfooted is questionable)
- The attacker is invisible and the defender does not have the "see invisibility" or "true seeing" effects on (these are caused by spells of the same name as well as other abilities)
- The creature has not seen its attacker for whatever reason (seeing is defined by Bioware's function)

There's some more stuff relating to uncanny dodge, but that doesn't apply to spell sneak attacking stuff.


December 21, 2013, 02:50:22 AM
Reply #2

If you are going Brd 6 / Assn 24 / SubC 10, take SubC at L21-30 for better BAB. It delays Epic Casting a little, but SubC is half BAB progression v. ¾ for the others. For more BAB, go for Wep Foci (rapier 3X crit & Finesse-able) & Epic Prowess.

It looks like you are going for a ton of Sneak dam (+12d6). TWF is a pretty good combo w/high dam / attack like sneaks bc the off-hand has a Str nerf. Perf TWF won’t do any good unless you have 4 primary per round, which this build won’t. You would need a L20 Divine Power spell (toolset item) to get that and make PTWF worth it; possible but NOT recommended.

I would go up to TWF + Ambi + Imp TWF + Gr TWF chains and Wep Finesse (rapier) on a Dex build. The issue becomes you need a 19 Cha for epic spells, 20 if you don’t want a bonus “dangler.” That doesn’t leave much for bumping Dex + Wep Finesse or Str mods. Since the offhand Str is nerfed in the TWF chain, I would go for a Dex build, as it helps AC + Flex saves as well.

This build is not much of a caster in terms of volume. 2 L9 spells and no L9 bonus spells until Cha 28. If you wanted to make some sort of caster out of it, you would need to boost Spell Pens + Spell Foci chains. Max & Extend are must have’s. Ironic that the build would have more Epics (5 typically) than L9’s (2). I would not waste many slots on BAB buffing, just use the Deadeye Sense (+20 attack) epic spell by itself.

Keep in mind, this build will struggle v sneak immunes (undead, constructs) in melee. Undeath-to-Death & Maximized Elemental Orb spells are in order there.

As for creating sneak attack scenarios, try fighting from the center of Tolodine’s Killing Wind (Epic, but short duration). Other spells that obscure sight are good for that as well.

Have fun and hope you post it when it’s done.
Fermi was a Pyrokineticist


December 21, 2013, 03:23:52 AM
Reply #3
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Thanks for those nice suggestions and clearing up some basic game mechanics. And yes, spell volume is not this classes big forte.

I will iron out the build some and post the finalized build somewhat later.


December 21, 2013, 02:06:30 PM
Reply #4

One small correction.

Save your last SubC until L40 to max out both Lore & Spellcraft. Those 2 skills set the number of Epic spells / day. I would prioritize the SubC Spellcraft & Lore at L40 over the Assn Tumble & UMD.
Fermi was a Pyrokineticist


January 05, 2014, 01:28:36 AM
Reply #5
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Well, that wont work, since you can only take 10+ assasin levels at epic levels, which would mean i'd either get 10 bard levels (for no benefit and another 5 caster levels down the drain) for more BAB.

Anyhow, this build is really strong at none sneak attack immune settings, but mostly you just get swarmed with undead, constructs and the like, thus left with a brickton of foes, a handful of high level spells and 6 attacks per round at mediocre BAB/damage.

Tho, i think thats fine. Superior versatility (kinda beeing able to do everything) was my first idea anyhow, and the build does that just fine.

As is, i'd settle for 5 Bard 10 Assasin 1 Bard 4 Sublime for pre epic.

Another 5 Sublime and save the last for 40, rest assasin. Thats enough skillpoints to max UMD/Tumble Lore and Spellcraft, fill all the performance prequisites for SL songs, fill out any disable trap/lock you could possibly want and still get some left over.

Feats should be TWF until greater. The rest im not entirely settled with. Spell penetration might be useful, tho of limited traction with as little spells. A shame there is no epic precision.


January 06, 2014, 03:36:51 AM
Reply #6

Forgot Assn was a prestige. My mistake.

Suggestions for improvement:

If Two Wep Rend (Epic Feat) 1.5X damage includes sneaks, that should be considered.

You probably have Imp Crit (rapier) + Wep Finesse & (Imp) K-down planned.

Epic Wep Focus (rapier) is great for dual wielding the same wep.

If you don't boost Dex with Gr. Dex (Epic), Fast Heals & Armor Skin are pretty nice as well.

Fermi was a Pyrokineticist