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Author Topic: Someone should add Immortal or Deity classes  (Read 1810 times)

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October 29, 2012, 05:45:48 PM
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Since the system is basedon D20 I am guessing it would have to be Deities, although it would be great if there were a retro game using the D&D rules.  Then an immortal class would be excellent.

So where are the engineers and mod makers to make this happen?


October 30, 2012, 01:07:12 AM
Reply #1

Have you seen the NWN base class uber builds?
http://nwnecbguild.44.forumer.com/bioware-legacy-builds-f60574.html

Then add PRC uber-ness: dual-progression casting (MystTheurge, Cerebro-mancer, etc.), uber casters (Red Wiz, Runecaster), Epic Spells (Epic Spell Reflect, TKill Wind, Army Unfall, Cont Res), uber spells (Starmantle, et. al.), max BAB casters with big bonus feats (EldKni, Hosp), Invoker (WL + WL Prestige) classes, Lich class, demilich templates, uber races, uber feats (Prac Cast, TW Rend), Psionics + Alternative systems.

Would recommend taking some of the above for a test drive before trying to code an immortal class or two.

Is there a boss crit that an uber PRC build can't defeat or compete with?
Fermi was a Pyrokineticist


February 14, 2017, 08:49:46 PM
Reply #2

Bozo-ware did that and called it the "monk."

Best saves? Check.
Lowest difference between attacks (3 v. fighter 5)? Check.
Most melee attacks w/o TWF / Tempest type builds? Check.
More unarmed damage than melee weapons (2d10 @ L20)? Check.
Free Cleave to get an extra attack w/o burning a feat? Check.
Best skills (Discipline, Tumble)? Check.
Uber SR that is hardwired (can't be reduced even w/ Mord's D) into NWN? Check. Thanks, Bozo-ware!
Max SR so high that only a few caster builds can bypass 100%? Check.
Multiple abilities that add to AC? Check.
AC that a fighter needs a 20 to hit? Check.
Primary AC bonus type (Dodge) that stacks (while all other types don't?) Check.
Free level based AC bonus? Check.
Free Improved Evasion to take 0 damage 95% of time to Evocation spells? Check.
Free Deflect Arrows (95% change to avoid 1 missile / round)? Check.
Easy access to Epic Dodge (opp's first attack always misses)? Check.
Free Imp K-down to always K-down mages? Check.
Free disease / poison immunity? Check.
Free 50% concealment? Check.
Fastest movement in the game? Check.
Uber-items tailor made for class (Boots of uber Dodge, Gauntlets of uber damage)? Check.
Fermi was a Pyrokineticist


February 23, 2017, 10:15:26 PM
Reply #3
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Bozo-ware did that and called it the "monk."

Best saves? Check.
True.
Quote
Lowest difference between attacks (3 v. fighter 5)? Check.
Most melee attacks w/o TWF / Tempest type builds? Check.
Whatever. If you want a lot of attacks you do go twf or natural weapons. Last attacks won't connect a high AC target anyway.
Quote
More unarmed damage than melee weapons (2d10 @ L20)? Check.
As if weapon damage was a big factor in the total damage at high levels. Crit is still 20/x2. Unarmed strike
Quote
Free Cleave to get an extra attack w/o burning a feat? Check.
That's just one free feat that's not broken, just useful. OMG ranger gets free ambidex and TWF! ;P
Quote
Best skills (Discipline, Tumble)? Check.
UMD is better, spellcraft is great. Tumble and discipline are great skills though.
Quote
Uber SR that is hardwired (can't be reduced even w/ Mord's D) into NWN? Check. Thanks, Bozo-ware!
Max SR so high that only a few caster builds can bypass 100%? Check.
Yeah, that's OP. But requires a heeeaaaaavy investment in monk levels.
Quote
Multiple abilities that add to AC? Check.
Multiple? I thought it's just one. Still very strong though. Splashability is of a big concern here though.
Quote
AC that a fighter needs a 20 to hit? Check.
Everyone knows that fighter is a weak class. If you build your char for high AB you will be able to hit. Pure monk can have huge AC though, since he can boost both dex and wis. No uncanny dodge though.
Quote
Primary AC bonus type (Dodge) that stacks (while all other types don't?) Check.
Free level based AC bonus? Check.
The class wouldn't function without it I think. And you need to invest a lot of levels into the latter. Levels which don't increase your casting or other abilities.
Quote
Free Improved Evasion to take 0 damage 95% of time to Evocation spells? Check.
Free Deflect Arrows (95% change to avoid 1 missile / round)? Check.
Imp Evasion is great, still accessible through other classes. And it's not free. It costs 9 levels. Deflect arrows is stupid because the DC is a flat 20.
Quote
Easy access to Epic Dodge (opp's first attack always misses)? Check.
Having to multiclass and increase a secondary is not that easy. Rogue has much easier access to it.
Quote
Free Imp K-down to always K-down mages? Check.
Try to hit a buffed mage with k-down...
Quote
Free disease / poison immunity? Check.
Quote
meh
Free 50% concealment? Check.
Strong.
Quote
Fastest movement in the game? Check.
Kinda meh, but can often be useful
Quote
Uber-items tailor made for class (Boots of uber Dodge, Gauntlets of uber damage)? Check.
UMD. The gauntlets I saw were usually meh. Boots of Sun Soul are great. Other classes also have items designed for them...

For some reason monk is considered tier 5 in pnp. In NWN this is a great class with insane splash and multiclass potential, but it's far from a "god".
Ideas are bulletproof.


February 23, 2017, 10:58:11 PM
Reply #4

Fermi was a Pyrokineticist


March 03, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Reply #5
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Hahah, I remembered posting about monk here, but didn't recall that being so similar xD I repeated history, hah.
As for the god build... It depends on the magic level. Monk scales very well with magic level, since he gets ac from wisdom. So it's true he can become untouchable given enough magic (though everyone is untouchable with +20 items available, because AC scales much faster with items than AC). But it's known that dexterity builds get most ac, and even for the monk probably focusing on dex is better than wis - +ab is better than +stunning fist DC. Still the AC difference winds up to monk level-based AC bonus (8 maximum)+modifier from wis versus AC coming from shields (or level-based AC bonuses of dragon disciple/pale master/whoever else gets them).

For good monks there's of course intuitive attack (that really should be for any alignment...), but it is limited by the hardcoded +20 attack cap... Still great for caster monks, where WIS gets you AC, attack, bonus spells, spell DCs, stunning fist DC, damage if Sacred Fist... You turn MAD into SAD. Can be a little circumvented by having also a naturally high DEX/STR, because every point of DEX/STR mod means a smaller bonus from intuitive attack (i think its coded that way? That it gives the difference between ability mods as a bonus to attack?), but it requires weapon finesse if Dex is higher than STR.

Imo the god build might very well contain monk and then it would be something like monk/druid/sacred fist or maybe shadowdancer just for hips (or screw SD if your race has hips... Another factor-which races are allowed). Another option would be nymph epic divine might/shield shenanigans. A build like shaman/rdd/heartwarder has insane ac, saves, can get divine power and mantle of egregious might in a domain slot and is a full caster - sadly with a limited spell list. Could still go cleric (worse saves, better spells, but domains are restricted to protection, good and charm) or different divine caster (Archivist for ultimate spell list, Favored Soul for cha synergy - but still DCs based on wis, Druid seems a bad idea here) and forgo RDD for Hospitaler, or go Templar for ultimate cha synergy (but shitty spell list - no heal, no harm, no greater restoration, no implosion, no destruction, no drown, also no sanctified nor corrupt spells).

Since this is what just came out of the top of my head, it's probably shitty and can be easily defeated.

ToB classes can be pretty OP with spammable time stops, double whirlwinds, insane amounts of attacks using maneuvers like raging mongoose or time stands still, overcoming DR with Mountain Hammer line or Foehammer.

..And exploiting time stops with their maneuvers, since every time you time stop you paralyze your opponents, and then you can make an attack using a maneuver to coup de grace for 9999 damage ;P That's pretty godly ;) It still wouldn't work on constructs and undead though. But an ordinary monk? Eats dirt ;P
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 03:32:06 PM by Shalvan »
Ideas are bulletproof.