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Neverwinter Nights => Base Classes => Topic started by: Dark_Ansem on July 05, 2010, 06:12:16 PM

Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Dark_Ansem on July 05, 2010, 06:12:16 PM
what do you think of it? I initially thought the Sorcerer or the Warlock were the most powerful, but I saw in the 3rd edition campaign setting that the most powerful spellcasters are wizards, which I tend to scoff because they have less spell slots...
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: KenquinnTheInsaneOne on July 05, 2010, 07:08:19 PM
A Wizards power does not come from the number of spell slots it comes from his versatility. Sorcerers in PnP DnD cant unlearn an unlimited number of spells each level and have a very limited number of spells know. With NWN the liited number of spells is not much of an issue as you mainly use Attack spells and with items you can tank many things you could not in PnP DnD.

What is the most powerful in the PRC I do not know.
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Dark_Ansem on July 05, 2010, 07:41:19 PM
thanks but I mean as a general rule. if you were to power play as a spellcaster what would you choose?

and no, I don't power play. I prefer role-playing. but also because of that I am very selective.
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: KenquinnTheInsaneOne on July 05, 2010, 07:53:33 PM
In 3.x edition I would chose a Wizard especially if your campaign allows spells that are not from the PHB. However I am not familiar with the few thousand custom classes so their could be a better one.
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Dark_Ansem on July 05, 2010, 07:57:15 PM
well I say only official material, and nwn-speaking!
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: KenquinnTheInsaneOne on July 05, 2010, 08:05:42 PM
It would depend on the server :D If you talking stock NWN in one of the OC I would go with Wizard but I have not played around with the other base caster classes.
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Dark_Ansem on July 05, 2010, 08:29:44 PM
is there a way to increase wizard spell slots? and what level does the wizard stop to "naturally" learn spells?
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: KenquinnTheInsaneOne on July 05, 2010, 08:32:43 PM
Quote from: Dark_Ansem

is there a way to increase wizard spell slots? and what level does the wizard stop to "naturally" learn spells?
Unless their is a PRC feat to do so you increase the number like any other caster by increasing the casters attribute that determines spell DC.

You get 2 spells per level indefinitely and of course you can learn any spell you could cast from a scroll.
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Dark_Ansem on July 05, 2010, 08:36:00 PM
ah yes, increasing intelligence. pity is't not possible to add more metamagic feats in the PRC, it would increased the spellcasting potential greatly.
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: marohair39 on July 06, 2010, 01:25:17 PM
Warlock without doubt, is the strongest xD the class doesn't have many blasting invocations/spells .. but the 2 or 3 it gots are deadly when spammed .. spamming many "Walls of Perilous Flame"  between you and the monsters while invisible (walk unseen) then attack them .... Warlock's strength comes from being able to spam skills without care on uses/day ... on the other hand, wizards can do the same even better in dmg outputs BUT gotta rest often.
Same for dragonfire adept with its breaths ....
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Dark_Ansem on July 06, 2010, 01:40:50 PM
Warlocks can cast all their invocations without resting?
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: marohair39 on July 06, 2010, 02:07:06 PM
yes, both invocation  users (dragonfire adept and warlock) can use their invocations without  limit a day ... only reason you may want to rest is to regain health.
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Dark_Ansem on July 06, 2010, 03:17:22 PM
But I believe they are less powerful than actual spells... otherwise everyone would go Warlock. And they have very limited Prestige Classes choice.
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Calirion on July 06, 2010, 05:08:51 PM
It is true that warlock invocations are not as powerful as the highest level spells, and it is true that the prestige class choices are more limited.  However, aside from the fact that invocations don't require rest, the warlock also has eldritch blast, which doesn't require rest either.  Whether a wizard or a warlock is a better choice depends on circumstances.  If the battle can be won by a few powerful blasts, then the wizard is better by far.  But in a war of attrition kind of battle, a warlock could still be fighting with equal strength long after a wizard had exhausted all the higher level spells.
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Dark_Ansem on July 06, 2010, 06:10:57 PM
definitely yes. unless the wizard has a teleport spell ready and comes to fight another day :P
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: heimdallw32 on July 06, 2010, 11:10:52 PM
The primary advantage wizards have is their versatility. Compared to a Sorcerer, a Wizard has fewer spells per day, but has a much wider selection, and gains new spell levels sooner (Levels 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17) than a Sorcerer (4 6 8 10 12 etc). A wizard can learn every spell in the game, while a Sorcerer has a much smaller selection.

Which is the 'most powerful' really ends up depending on the module. In a module where magic items capable of casting spells as well as scrolls are plentiful, then the Sorcerer and Warlock can potentially edge ahead. Especially if items with immunities are plentiful.

However, Wizards also excel at multiclassing, there are several PrCs that boost the Wizard's power drastically, the primary ones being the Archmage and Red Wizard of Thay. The Red Wizard in particular can potentially boast spell DCs in the neighborhood of 50-60ish, and this carries over to Epic spells of the same school. A Necromaner Red Wizard, for instance, can cast Momento Mori or Tolodine's Killing Wind with very high DCs. The Archmage class plays more towards the Wizard's versatility and allows one to alter the energy type in a spell (fireball that does cold damage instead, lightning bolt that does acid damage instead, ect) and can ignore the dangers of full-PvP setting servers (spell shaping = can cast AoE without harming friendlies).

I'm sure other folks can think of other combinations. Oh, and you can't forget the Lich either...the Demilich in particular is, basically, neigh-invulnerable and still has most of the power of a high level Wizard. i.e. overpowered (though that's intended)

Though at lower levels, the warlock and sorcerer do hold an advantadge, especially in the single digit levels, where a wizard's spell arsenal is tiny and expended quickly.
Title: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Dark_Ansem on July 07, 2010, 06:06:05 AM
that's what I thought: warlock-sorcerers are more powerful at the beginning, but wizs and other more "complicated" classes excel in the long run
Title: Re: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: ChestRockwell on September 29, 2013, 04:46:36 AM
I realize this is an old thread, but I couldn't help wanting to share my 2 cents and it didn't seem like it was something worth creating an entirely new topic about.  Just when it comes to the discussion of what is better a Sorcerer or Wizard.

People will point out how that while sorcerers can cast more spells per day, the wizards are more versatile because they can learn a lot more spells.  I agree with that, but the thing is I just never saw that as an advantage..at least not in NWN(at least, the original campaign and official expansions).  The reason being that if you know what you are doing you don't need a great amount of versatility here.  A wizard can learn a good number of offensive spells overall, while at the same time taking a few key non-offensive spells like stoneskin, premonition, a spell mantle, and then a spell or two that allows for dispelling magic. 

You can blast your way through most enemies without having to really get versatile, very few enemies are resistant to more then 1-2 of the elemental damages in the game and even the ones that are resistant to more then 1-2 are still susceptible to straight up magical damage.  Especially once you get access to level 9 spells and get Time Stop.  If you combine that with Isaac's Greater Missile Storm you will be nigh unstoppable, you can stop time and you usually have enough time before it ends to cast about 3 spells.  The greater missile storm can generate a maximum of 20 missiles, which means as soon as the time stop ends 60 magic missiles will suddenly appear and slam into all the enemies around.  This is especially devastating if used on a single enemy.
Title: Re: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Calirion on September 29, 2013, 02:42:50 PM
The other thing to keep in mind for warlocks is that one of the elemental essences (acid, I think) is not affected by spell resistance. Once you acquire that particular essence you can just keep blasting away until you destroy an opponent who might well have resisted some pretty strong wizard spells.

I might pick wizard for role-playing reasons, or I might pick wizard if I were evil and wanted to become a demilich. Because demiliches acquire a lot of spell-like abilities they can use at will, as well as considerable resistance to most forms of damage (and all spells), they are clearly stronger than warlocks. In almost any other scenario, though, a warlock is going to be stronger because of the unlimited ability to re-use invocations without resting.

Prestige class choices are very limited, but there is no law that says one needs a prestige class. I have successfully played several base class builds.
Title: Re: Most "powerful" base spellcasting class
Post by: Calirion on September 29, 2013, 03:42:49 PM
Oh, I forgot about epic spells. Yes, that is an area of advantage for wizards (and sorcerers) that warlocks can't match.

On the other hand, let's not forget that warlocks do have UMD as a class skill. With just a few points in that skill, a warlock can use any spell scroll in the game. True, they can only cast at the level of the scroll, so a wizard could still cast more powerfully, but a warlock could cast any spell in the game given the right scroll, an advantage that few classes have, and one that compensates to some degree for spells being more powerful than invocations.

At whatever point the eldritch theurge and eldritch disciple with epic progression become part of the game, those are the only prestige classes a warlock could ever need. Then you can have inexhaustible invocations AND the ability to cast high level spells. It almost makes up for not being a demilich...